Dev Meeting Transcript (September 3, 2021)

[3:55 PM] brianmct: Channel open!

[4:02 PM] Tron: :wave:

[4:02 PM] kinkajou: Hello!

[4:04 PM] brianmct: boatsandhoes are you free to coordinate?

[4:06 PM] brianmct: Tron have you seen the Raven QT SIG's message here? Looks like the next release is ready for audit/signing: https://discord.com/channels/429127343165145089/637386139279556659/883143409643171840

[4:08 PM] Tron: I didn't. I'll check it out.

[4:09 PM] boatsandhoes: Hello

[4:10 PM] boatsandhoes: The main thing from last week was to expand on Hans_Schmidt proposals

[4:11 PM] boatsandhoes: I'm still working through it so don't really have any comments on it. Does anyone else?

[4:12 PM] kinkajou: There were a few different parts to it. It may be helpful to break it down and discuss the proposal section by section.

[4:12 PM] boatsandhoes: So is this part 2 of 2 that is now ready for audit?

[4:13 PM] Tron: Ok, I signed the contract, and sent them the develop branch, and the "delta" link: https://github.com/RavenProject/Ravencoin/compare/release_4.3.2.1…develop

[4:14 PM] boatsandhoes: which is the first one that you want to see worked on first to get it ready to be merged?

[4:15 PM] Tron: The cost of the audit is $28,000. I converted that to USDC a while ago. It represented about 10% of the Security Audit fund.

[4:15 PM] kinkajou: I'm personally most excited about/interested in Vault Assets, and upgrading our codebase to be current with Bitcoin (SegWit, Taproot).

[4:15 PM] boatsandhoes: Sounds good

[4:15 PM] Tron: Assuming there's nothing significant found, we can build/sign the binaries and begin the activation process.

[4:16 PM] kinkajou: Though if the aim is to capture DeFi interest, covenants/oracles may be a good thing to focus on initially.

[4:17 PM] Tron: Does anyone know the status of the Metamask-like wallet for RVN?

[4:18 PM] kinkajou: I believe Grub was working on that. Haven't heard from him in a while.

[4:18 PM] boatsandhoes: How soon can the audit process start?

[4:18 PM] boatsandhoes: Someone else was working on it before him. Not sure who off hand

[4:19 PM] kinkajou: push posted the Ravenmask github article

[4:19 PM] kinkajou: Scotty had his keyvault demo that was pretty cool and somewhat related

[4:19 PM] boatsandhoes: SegWit and Taproot have my vote for primary dev effort first. Plus BTC devs can be tapped to do that bounty work

[4:20 PM] boatsandhoes: I'd even throw in on that bounty

[4:20 PM] Tron: Are there links to demos or code?

[4:22 PM] Tron: It may depend on their load, but the agreement says the assessment takes 5-6 weeks.

[4:22 PM] kinkajou: https://demos.keyvault.app/

I believe that is the link to Scotty's demo

[4:22 PM] Tron: Thanks

[4:23 PM] boatsandhoes: is the order going to be paid for or submitted today?

[4:24 PM] Tron: It was just signed and submitted 10 minutes ago. The USDC has been allocated, but hasn't been paid yet.

[4:25 PM] Tron: Thank you to brianmct for the link to the SIG Discord. I should've seen it, but hadn't.

[4:27 PM] Tron: This develop branch should have a code freeze, and represent Release Candidate 0 and be the next release unless something significant is found.

[4:27 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): do we have enough to cover the gas fees on that 28k of USDC

[4:27 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): :weary:

[4:28 PM] Mango Farm: At this rate people will have to resort to emailing each other private keys :rofl:

[4:28 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): that is the cheapest route. I hadn't even thought of that lol

[4:29 PM] Mango Farm: :rofl:

[4:29 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): glad to see some forward momentum on the audit

[4:30 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): raven code base has evolved pretty consistently through the duration of the time I've been watching the project. Feels a little weird to have not done much tinkering for so long

[4:30 PM] Tron: Ballet Wallets can work really well for that. It is verifiable, and provably not spendable until the tamper-evident sticker is ripped up.

[4:30 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): love it

[4:30 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): I remember Pathfinder had some single use bitcoin widget thing he posted about on twitter once

[4:30 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): I believe it actually destroys the keys after use or something

[4:30 PM] Tron: OpenDime?

[4:30 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): yes, I believe so

[4:31 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): yep that's the one

[4:32 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): I love clever implementations/utilizaitons of bitcoin and its code forks

[4:32 PM] kinkajou: We should probably talk about the future of the mobile wallet at some point

[4:33 PM] kinkajou: More complaints lately (not like they ever stopped)

[4:33 PM] boatsandhoes: Agreed.

Anyone have an update on the new mobile? I haven't had a chance yet. Is there a beta?

[4:34 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): this is actually a huge concern of mine

[4:34 PM] Tron: There's two – iOS and Android.

[4:34 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): I've been a bit busy this week but since I'm here I'll say my piece on it. I wish to see the moontree product from Whalestreet and Meta Stack reskinned as core and pushed as an update that imports extant user's 12 word seed

[4:35 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): I think that would take cooperation from Foundation and/or Medici (since the software is under their signature)

[4:35 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): but I find it unacceptable that a borderline deprecated product with a sub 3 star review is our top hit on the mobile stores

[4:35 PM] boatsandhoes: Sevvy (bottled in bond) never too late to tinker, why not take a look at moontree and make a tutorial?

[4:35 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): and we ought, as a community, reconcile the issue

[4:36 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): one option is to make a social push for users to avoid the seemingly official wallet which has known issues. Another is to pay to maintain the existing product. Or finally, with coordination of moontree SIG and Foundation/legacy wallet creators, slipstream the new reskinned wallet into the old build somehow

[4:36 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): seamlessly for the current users

[4:36 PM] kinkajou: I don't want to see any mobile wallets branded as Core, because mobile wallets are not Core.

[4:36 PM] Tron: I have access to the iOS one, but I don't seem to have credentials for the Android (Play Store).

[4:36 PM] kinkajou: I don't think we need an "official" mobile wallet

[4:36 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): let's say "de facto official mobile wallet"

[4:36 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): we all know what the lay person's perception can be

[4:37 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): my point remains, it would be best to do one of the options I mentioned above

[4:37 PM] boatsandhoes: Who has the credentials for Android?

[4:37 PM] kinkajou: Agree with this 100%. It's a bad look.

[4:37 PM] Tron: The iOS one works (for me). I've been helping Android users move to other options.

[4:38 PM] Tron: SpyderDev has them.

[4:38 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): To codify them:

1) Social push for use of any other wallet with full functionality and active development

2) Crowd sourced or Foundation funding for ongoing maintenance of the de facto offical mobile wallet(s)

3) Slipstream a reskinned moontree version into the existing userbase somehow. I'm too inept with code to know if that's possible or feasible. Since it would need them to import 12 words from the old code

[4:39 PM] boatsandhoes: Sevvy (bottled in bond) do you know anything about a working beta for moontree, or a timeline?

[4:39 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): I believe anything with certain metadata types will glitch

[4:39 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): I believe they're beta soon?

[4:39 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): I do not, admittedly, have my finger as close to the pulse of raven development as I did in the past

[4:39 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: They said a few weeks in the electrum sig meeting

[4:39 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): probably because there's more of it lately

[4:39 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): and I pick up too many extra hours at the old circus peanut factory

[4:40 PM] boatsandhoes: same

[4:40 PM] Tron: I have a shared slack channel with the MoonTree devs. I'll ask about an estimated timeline.

[4:40 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): fantastic

[4:41 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): A wide range of choices for mobile wallets, all of them with full functionality and robust features, as well as active maintenance is the ideal

[4:41 PM] boatsandhoes: Thank you. also if there is an open beta list, it would be cool to know how to get on it

[4:41 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): However, it seems to me that the one that bears the name which the lay person will perceive as official, ought to meet those criteria

[4:41 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): or it should be deprecated

[4:41 PM] LSJI07 – BWS: Moontree is getting mentioned alot. is that the blue wallet for RVN or new code?

[4:41 PM] Tron: Sorry, not a Slack channel. A Discord server.

[4:42 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): essentially

[4:42 PM] Tron: New code.

[4:42 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: New code

[4:42 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): it's what that blue wallet project became right?

[4:42 PM] boatsandhoes: Did blue wallet conversion get abandoned?

[4:42 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Yes

[4:42 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: They said blue wallet sucked

[4:42 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: And theyre making a better backend

[4:42 PM] boatsandhoes: good to know

[4:42 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: (Paraphrasing)

[4:42 PM] boatsandhoes: thanks!

[4:43 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): yeah they picked a new base on which to build, right?

[4:43 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): or is moontree ground up?

[4:43 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: https://discord.com/channels/429127343165145089/843538032648650802/876822366611722320

[4:43 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Heres their repos

[4:43 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Ground up afaik

[4:43 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): wow my mistake

[4:43 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): cool beans, thanks for the clarification

[4:44 PM] LSJI07 – BWS: Thats a channel i haven't visited much or at all. :eyes: Thanks for the reminder. I have reading to do.

[4:45 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): looks like they tore it down to the foundation

[4:45 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): unless that's outdated. Sorry not trying to split hairs. just learning out loud haha

[4:45 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Thats deprecated

[4:46 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: They were working on it but were basically like this isnt working

[4:46 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): haha I will get a clue outside of the dev meeting. I'll excuse myself :sweat_smile:

[4:46 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Its the front end and back end being worked on

[4:46 PM] boatsandhoes: Any other comments on Hans_Schmidt proposals?

[4:47 PM] LSJI07 – BWS: Mobile (moontree) being a single ios and android implementation? or targeted?

[4:47 PM] Tron: It should work on both.

[4:48 PM] LSJI07 – BWS: Its a future meeting and discussion imo. There is much to discuss on that paper.

[4:50 PM] kinkajou: For those that may have missed it (like I did) the Stable Coin Proposals and donation addresses were posted on the foundation site: https://ravencoin.foundation/stablecoin_proposals

[4:50 PM] LSJI07 – BWS: definitely worth discussing just not sure an hour on discord in a several development meetings will be enough.

[4:51 PM] boatsandhoes: The same thing was said last week. at the minimum we can figure out what specific proposals have the most favor to expand upon

[4:51 PM] Mango Farm: Jeroz passed along to me a request this morning since he is not in the RVN discord much any more. He asked if there was a possibility to stream these meetings to telegram and Reddit as well. Am passing along for consideration.

[4:51 PM] kinkajou: Agreed. It would be prudent to discuss what to discuss :stuck_out_tongue: IMO

[4:52 PM] kinkajou: kralverde 🇺🇸 was working on a solution for that I think. Or did you mean literally stream – as in set up a video stream on page?

[4:52 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Im working on bot to do that

[4:52 PM] Mango Farm: I think he was mostly asking for a feed but a back and forth functionality between platforms would be pretty cool.

[4:53 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: I would love to collab if interested

[4:53 PM] Tron: I was going to mention the Stablecoin proposals. I wanted to bring them up here first because the slide presentation from OpenDAO had $25K and it is now $50K.

[4:53 PM] Mango Farm: :fire:

[4:53 PM] Tron: I'll put the proposal page out on Twitter and other places, but I wanted to mention cost jump here first.

[4:53 PM] Mango Farm: I’ve go so many irons in the fire I don’t want to commit to things I can’t go full bore with.

[4:54 PM] boatsandhoes: open source?

[4:54 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Yes

[4:54 PM] Sevvy (bottled in bond): red hot glowing swiss army mango

[4:54 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Right now its just cross discord

[4:54 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Im trying to figure out reddit api

[4:55 PM] kinkajou: May be difficult getting back-and-forth chat functionality cross-platform. I think we have 2FA on this server now

[4:55 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: How does that effect cross platform?

[4:55 PM] LSJI07 – BWS: is there a demand from any users for a specific stablecoin?

[4:55 PM] boatsandhoes: that seems like a red flag at first glance

[4:56 PM] kinkajou: I guess it wouldn't if you're using a bot to relay everything. Ignore me.

[4:56 PM] boatsandhoes: none that i have heard

[4:56 PM] Tron: There have been requests for its use in atomic swaps on RavenTrader.

[4:57 PM] LSJI07 – BWS: i havent heard any demand per se also but I'm well aware that it could massively aid some usecases that deal predominately in fiat and we need to build bridges.

[4:57 PM] kinkajou: The informal 'thumbs-up' voting/poll 2 dev meetings ago seemed to show more interest for Stably USDS, though I'm not sure if that is indicative of overall community interest.

[4:58 PM] Mango Farm: Since you can’t even buy RVN in New York having a stablecoin option for people to use to buy assets doesn’t sound like a bad idea.

[4:59 PM] Tron: The other one (RVN/pRVN on OpenDAO) would use the RVN to incentivize others to yield farm to create USDO. That's the reason that many of the tokens pay interest on sites like Nexo, Celsius, Abra, etc.

[4:59 PM] boatsandhoes: Has anyone stepped forward in being a liquidity provider for that asset on raventrader?

[5:00 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Theoretically the opendao proposal would mint a stablecoin asset on rvn, no?

[5:00 PM] kralverde 🇺🇸: Or was that the other?

[5:02 PM] Tron: The OpenDAO proposal is for RVN to pRVN, and then incentivising (with the $50K RVN) for others to mint USDO on Binance Smart Chain. That all sounds convoluted, but the advantage is that you can borrow USDO against your RVN, and it might lead to interest-bearing RVN accounts.

[5:03 PM] boatsandhoes: Are ravencoinipfs tokenized giftcards in the works?

[5:03 PM] Tron: The Stably proposal is minting USDS as a USD backed token where the USD is 1:1 backed. The USD would be held in a custodian. It is Tether-like, or if you hate Tether, it is USDC-like.

[5:04 PM] Mango Farm: Will dm

[5:04 PM] Tron: The Stably proposal also generates some open-source code that they would use, but also make available.

[5:05 PM] Tron: The proposals page: https://ravencoin.foundation/stablecoin_proposals links to both proposals. The OpenDAO explains how it would work using one they've already done. They would use the same model, and smart contract code.

[5:08 PM] Mango Farm: Which one do you think is the best option Tron?

[5:11 PM] Tron: I think they serve different purposes. The OpenDAO one links RVN to the DeFi world via the Binance Smart Chain and might lead to better exposure in the Custodied crypto world. The Stably proposal gives an on-chain USD stablecoin that can be used for atomic swaps which reduces the volatility when making an atomic ask transaction. I like them both.

[5:12 PM] boatsandhoes: Are there any companies or people purposing to be a liquidity provider for a stable coin by way of a ravencoin asset?

[5:12 PM] boatsandhoes: other than Stably?

[5:13 PM] Tron: That's what the $50K is used for in the OpenDAO proposal. They're not keeping the RVN, they're putting it out there to incentivize yield farming (liquidity providing for profit).

[5:14 PM] boatsandhoes: Got it. So $50k go in and 50k USDS get issued?

[5:14 PM] boatsandhoes: If that is the case I def am down to contribute to that

[5:17 PM] Tron: I think they're providing extra RVN to those who provide liquidity. $50K RVN should generate more than $50K USDO, but other RVN will be locked up as pRVN to make that liquidity possible. In fact, quite a bit more, because of the over-collateralization that is required to keep USDO safely at $1.

[5:17 PM] LSJI07 – BWS: I like stably as it would be by primetrust and help the institutional side making funding easier for twinned asset transactions on ravencoin.

[5:21 PM] LSJI07 – BWS: To me primetrust via stably is a route for Ravencoin into equity crowdfunding, People need tools and hand holding for that usecase. Primetrust makes the tools and holds people by the hand. Exactly what a decentralised network cannot do.

[5:23 PM] Tron: If you have questions about OpenDAO (USDO) version, you can contact Logan Fulcher Twitter: OpenDAOLogan

[5:25 PM] boatsandhoes: does anyone want to bring up any other topics for the meeting?

[5:27 PM] kinkajou: I'd like to set a date or figure out a plan of attack for discussing Hans' proposal

[5:27 PM] kinkajou: Should we do that in the dev meeting or a separate meeting?

[5:27 PM] boatsandhoes: next week

[5:27 PM] boatsandhoes: separate then dev

[5:27 PM] LSJI07 – BWS: A set of meetings perhaps in braveland.

[5:29 PM] LSJI07 – BWS: Video and voice adds some flavour to these ideas. Summary posted in text for posterity.

[5:30 PM] brianmct: I will pledge $10k to the USDS fund – who's with me?

[5:30 PM] kinkajou: just seems to me like braveland has the least engagement out of any of our platforms

[5:31 PM] boatsandhoes: +1

[5:31 PM] boatsandhoes: yep

[5:32 PM] Tron: Not dev-related, but good for Ravencoin. I will be a guest on a radio program on 3 radio stations in Utah (105.7, 99.1, and 570 AM), and it will also be available via podcasts and iHeartRadio.

[5:32 PM] boatsandhoes: kinkajou how about discord. 11 am PST next Friday?

[5:32 PM] boatsandhoes: voice or text, idc

[5:33 PM] S1LVA: I will stake my pooRVN lp tokens

[5:33 PM] Mango Farm: Braveland is really an underutilized resource

[5:33 PM] Mango Farm: It’s so very cool

[5:33 PM] LSJI07 – BWS: We don't have many set audio video meetings to discuss potential changes and the braveland platform is at least quiet. :jesus: Discord audio or text is fine if everyones is there.

[5:34 PM] Tron: I'm with you.

[5:34 PM] boatsandhoes: Does anyone here know how to allow the RVN mobile wallet to run in the background?

[5:35 PM] LSJI07 – BWS: ios or android?

[5:36 PM] boatsandhoes: both if possible

[5:37 PM] kinkajou: sounds good to me we just need to get the word out so people know to show up

[5:37 PM] Mango Farm: Have to get back to it. Have a great 3 day weekend all. Try not to labor too much on Labor Day.

[5:39 PM] boatsandhoes: Same. Got to bounce. Have a great week y'all

[5:40 PM] kinkajou: Perhaps we should check with Hans_Schmidt to see if that works for him?

[5:41 PM] LSJI07 – BWS: i use android and that os has a keep in RAM function that for me beats the part of the battery optimization software in most OS's that keeps shutting Ravencoin down. iOS is not my forte.

[5:43 PM] Tron: I'm not sure about background, but on iOS, if you set the screen to never lock, keep it on the charger and RVN wallet open, it should keep syncing. After it is synced once, subsequent catch-up syncing shouldn't take long.

[5:44 PM] LSJI07 – BWS: I would go for the day after the next dev meeting. Saturday around the same time if it suits others. That way there is less work to shuffle out the way.

[5:44 PM] Tron: For non-syncing wallets that support assets, you can use MangoFarm wallet, or Zelcore, and soon MoonTree. Stibits on iOS only.

[5:44 PM] Tron: For RVN only, you have lots of choices.

[5:46 PM] Tron: Have a great weekend everyone.